On Sunday, PostalReporter.com posted a USPS News Link article Redesigning USPS: Changes To Be Announced In Late March. The article said in part: “On Jan. 7, PMG Pat Donahoe announced the beginning of an organizational redesign that will help streamline the Postal Service. The March announcement also could lead to a reduction in force (RIF) or voluntary early retirement (VER) for specific groups of employees. If implemented, the VER option will be announced along with the new organizational structure.” PostalReporter.com readers responded with varying views of what is really needed to keep USPS afloat. Several readers suggested that before promoting managers/supervisors USPS “must develop psychological profile tests to screen out the thugs, bullies, and misfits that are now clogging the system” in order to have a viable future. Also, some readers predict that if the upcoming VER includes a monetary incentive, it would be a mass exodus from USPS.
Read the exchange below:
Marv
Face reality the majority of larger officies, areas, districts. assume they are entitled to be a privileged class. Some even assume they are comparable to executives in the corporate world where bottomlines have to be met to continue existence as Congress will not bail them out. Many of these people attained their position by getting attention as their forte was the STICK APPROACH and not formal management education. These roughians can even betray a district manager as a group in making goal numbers if it is apparent this individual is a higher class educated person and not a member of the alley cat gang. Psychological testing is a must for all promotions from top to bottom. Code of Ethical Conduct applies to all employees.
Marv,
You’re 100% correct about testing our managers for psychological profiles. The managers we have are abusive, self-serving, and really only care about making thier numbers so they can get promoted. As you can see from some of the posts on this website, our managers show who they really are and how they really manage the organization. They seriously lack in technical, interpersonel, and problem-solving skills in dealing with the issues that the US Postal Service is facing. If the US Postal Service is going to have a viable future, the service must develop psychological profile tests to screen out the thugs, bullies, and misfits that are now clogging the system and start hiring candidates that have real management skills. Trust me, candidates are there, they are just not allowed to rise for recogintion.
Avenger,
If you think you can do a better job managing people then why aren’t you in management? It’s people like you who just whine and whine and have no real solutions and just part of the problem. You talk the talk but can’t walk the walk. Anytime something happens you idiots are so quick to blame management. When I 1st got into management I was so happy, now all I do is babysit grown ass people. To me a lot of craft employees seem to think they just have to show up and do nothing and get a check, those days of 3 to 4 hours breaks are over(yes you know milked the system just admit it). 95% of clerks, carriers, custodians and mailhandlers are just high school graduates, who can’t seem to do their job. Now let me go do my JOB!
The end
When I joined the PO, my original intent was to get into management as quickly as possible. However, after seeing the way management must treat people, I decided I would not be able to look myself in the mirror each day, and be happy with myself, if I had to treat people that way. I have only worked in one office, so that is all I can go by.
What I see though, is that, even the “laziest” carrier still must work hard. Years of beating SPLY have hit a wall. I have never worked so hard in all my life, at any place of employment, and I am treated like a piece of garbage. I have always been considered a great worker at all my other jobs.
If I could go back in time, I would never accept the job here. I stay because; I have invested much of my life here. I’m getting too old to start a new career. The economy is terrible and I cannot get another job that pays me what I make here or offers the same benefits. Essentially, I stay because I have to stay in order to survive. That doesn’t make it ok to treat people the way we are treated.
GTY
This is what most craft feels. Too bad. The corporate culture will never change. Our plant continues to receive “managers” from other areas. Most of the men are sexual harassers and attempt to micromanage and end up being “unmasked” for the frauds they are. The cycle continues. At least some worthless craft people finally are fired. I have yet to see any manager fired in 17 years. It wont change. Keep the faith “the end” and keep cashing your checks like me for as long as the tracks go. Peace to you.
The end
I’m in a similar boat, but I spent 14 years working on a under-graduate and graduate degree in accounting and operations management. I paid for it out of my own pocket while carrying mail. Working eighteen hours a day was not uncommon. I didn’t mind. It was worth it and I had fun. I had a Postmaster that wanted me to kiss his lazy ass if I wanted to get into management. I didn’t cause him any problems or mean-mouthed him, I just refused to kiss his worthless ass. Needless to say, he had a knife in my back the size of a machete. The district managers didn’t take kindly to what he did and cut his budget to make his life miserable. He eventually retired.
There were other Postmasters that tried to get me into management, but none of them could ever get anything going. It was just one thing or another. Nothing specific. I spent about two years as a 204b feeling like a fifth wheel, trying to get some sort of detail going to improve my skill sets with the Post Office. (Note: You would be surprised at what little work front-line supervisors really do. I worked with an OIC that spent three days on Post Office time trying to finance a new car. Can you imagine if a craft employee did that.) Needless to say, I applied about a dozen times for the ASP and other entry level supervisor positions. I even applied twice for the Management Intern Program. There was a candidate there that had a Masters Degree in Accounting and he was having the same problems that I had. The Postal Service desparately needs his skill sets to develop GAAP (General Accepted Accounting Principles.)
After running my ass all over the place from one job interview to the next, I finally filed an EEO. I didn’t want to, but I felt I had no choice. Management did an investigation and I found out that management scores the candidates according to who they want and not based on their qualifications. I went before a Federal Judge against a lawyer that represented the USPS and decided to just drop the issue. It’s not worth spending 5 grand on a lawyer for representation. I was taught in my Human Resource Management class not to force your way into an organization that doesn’t want you. Your better off seeking employment eslewhere
This is for AVENGER……..you say your job is to babysit these days, Last i heard babysitters got paid 5.50 an hour. Im curious if thats how much youre getting.
Avenger is right! Most of our coworkers do think that all they have to do is show up and take a 3 hour break! I’ve spent most of my life in the REAL world, not on the “gubmint welfare” as one guy bragged about his USPS time and all I can say is Suck it up Cupcake! You couldn’t handle a real damn job!
THE FIRST THING THEY SHOULD DO BEFORE ENTERING OR EVEN BE ACCEPTED INTO MGT. IS: PEE IN A CUP! AND I DO NOT MEAN EVERYONE ELSE’S CUP!!!!!!!!!!!!!
get rid of the bullies
it’s about time! also you should also test the present postmasters and if they fail, get rid of them.
Avenger, What do you mean by just 95% have high school educations? What are you looking for? Rhode scholars? People with a PhD in Post Office? Your comtempt for people you consider beneath you is almost palpable. That’s why you can’t lead others. Employees sense this and quit on you. Here’s a little secret, just for you—- that stuff you drop in toilet everyday, that smells just like everyone elses.
Start with the F bombers at L’Enfant Plaza the go to Regional VP’s , the Plant Managers and ALL MDO’s. They are the problem. Also RIF 3/4 of the VP’s and 3/4 of the L’Enfant coffee sipper club.
Patty–her do nasty all the time. Her scream, too, like her someone special with that Lexus.
IT IS ABOUT TIME SOMETHING IS DONE WITH THESE LAZY POSTMASTERS THAT BREAK EVERY RULE AND TREAT PEOPLE LIKE IDIOTS. ALSO WHEN YOUR POSTMASTER IS SO RUDE TO THE PUBLIC THAT PEOPLE ACTUALLY WALK OUT OF THE POST OFFICE CRYING THAT IS A SAD WAY TO RUN A POST OFFICE THEN EVERYWHERE YOU GO PEOPLE TALK ABOUT HOW ROTTEN SHE IS…..EVEN CALLS CUSTOMERS BITCH BEHIND THE WALL OF THE BOX SECTION AND THE CUSTOMER HEARD HER. SHE IS WICKED AND TREATS ALL HER EMPLOYEES WITH NO RESPECT BUT THEY STILL GET THEIR JOBS DONE AND CLEANED UP. ALSO THEY PAY THESE PEOPLE WITH HIGH SALARY FOR WHAT THEY DO NOT DO ANYTHING SPECIAL THE EMPLOYEES ARE THE ONES WHO RUN THE PLACE….AND AREN’T ON THEIR CELL PHONES WHEN THEY WAIT ON CUSTOMERS VERY RUDE PEOPLE THEY ARE SOME ANYWAYS.
Hmmmmm. Only offer I saw/read about had the min. Requirements of fifty yoa and 25 yos. for the 15k.
Lots of stress and hostility in the work place when the RCE or so call mystery shopper program was implemented. Disciplinary measures were required even though it was not suppose to be used!!!
USPS only sees disciplinary measures on all fronts whether it is craft or management.
I can only see that the APC will be the main survivor in the USPS and retail personnel be reduce to another 20% in the immediate future!!!
Time to be a entrepreneur and not an employee.!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
yo avenger, most management types are reject’s from crafts, yes, the same crafts that without, the PO would dry up and blow away. We can do without your elk, bitch.
If there was a way that I could reward the people that do a good job and fire the ones that don’t, the post office would be a great place to work
the 15K was given to ANYONE who left in 2009. not just those who retired.
Testing and a screening process won’t change a thing. The problems seen at lower and middle level management are a direct result of the institutional culture and mindset promulgated at L’Enfant Plaza. The organization is fundamentally top down and autocratic. Senior management seems congenitally predisposed to listening only to themselves and the echo chamber they create distorts terribly.
Individual supervisors and managers have virtually no authority, they exist to carry out the directives of DMs and higher. Individually some may have better personalities and can do things in a kinder and gentler way but the fact is that everything is micromanaged so that eventually even the decent get swallowed up by the system.
Dignity and Respect is all employees want. Unfortunately we have individuals whom think because they wear a yellow badge they can treat employees anyway they want and do anything they want. There is absolutely no accountability when it comes to Postal Management they do what they want with no consequences. The reality of the situation is not everybody is made to lead people and we have too many individuals in management that have zero leadership skills and for this reason they cause a toxic work enviroment in which to work in. There defintely needs to be a change in the selection process of those who are going to lead the team to victory or we are in for failure.
So, if you have management skills and experience BEFORE entering into the USPS; and probably really good at the job….supervising (as it maybe for 204B’S) YOU WILL PROBABLY NOT BECOME AN SUPERVISOR… They really do not need someone to out shine; some or all of them. But, that is, some of the problem the USPS needs to upgrade their hiring techiques to filter out the best to get it into the race of automation/computerizaton and FORTUNE 500 attitude…
The ASP program was supposed to fix the promotion system; However, was only manipulated by higher-ups so they could promote the people they truly wanted. The problem with the system as far as I see is that once you allow a substandard person into management, they eventually promote like minded people into managent. Bullies hang-out w/ bullies, so on and so forth. Think about it, arn’t the people you chose to befriend generally like minded to a great extent? Thus, once these substandard individuals are let into the management organization, they pollute the organization further. “One bad apple spoils the bunch!”
Mailman, It was offered to all clerks, regardless of years. Incentive was prorated based on hours worked the previous year. Since I’d been OIC, not a ptf, during the previous 12 months, I more than qualified for the full amount.
Igor, why in the world didn’t you retire earlier ?
I think the idea of testing management for their positions is a great idea, yet flawed. True, the PO would manipulate the scores and this would be a worthless effort to try to improve the system.
I have experienced the rath of such management idiots. At the Riverdale, GA, PO, Postmaster Clarence Coulter, Manager Rhonda Brown and Supervisor Candido Conde have lied, cheated, harrassed, demoralized, bullied, hounded, mistreated, disrespected, abused, and retaliated at the stations. I was issued a letter of termination for supossedly stealing $50.00. After more than a year, I got my job back, with back pay, benefits and the like. Other employees in Riverdale have been subjected to similar lies, because they spoke out against the Postmaster in a sexual harrassment case against him. The PO paid the girl a settlement of over $125,000.00. Coulter had threatened to “remember” all who testified against him. And he kept his promise. Coulter tried to get rid of several other employees too. It didn’t work. Now the PO will have to pay LARGE EEO settlements to cover for an inept, incompetant, evil, mean spirited, lying, SOB. Coulter and Brown have been suspended WITH PAY for over 7 months and the PO hasn’t issued them any disipline. This is the Postal way. Crap on the craft employees and allow management to do whatever they want no matter what.
It is criminal that the PO allows its management to treat employees this way and then try to hide and cover up the situations. If Congress wants to FIX something, let them set standards of management.
Psych screening before mounting the shark won’t help. I’ve seen good workers turn mean after taking management jobs at the PO, (also suicide), and I’ve been in the furnace since 1959! I’m a local steward and I can usually put out fires, but the problems start at the top and altho the fish-head rots first, abuse that goes down the whole spine ultimately reaches our customers. Sadly, I can’t offer a solution. Can anybody? Please. Before I retire this year. I doubt if it’ll be Donahoe.
To bad , but you all speak the truth . I was in different management jobs before the post office . I had psychological profiles before the post office for management jobs . At twenty years old i ran a medical manufactoring plant . Then a construction division of the worlds largest home builder . When i came to the post office , it was the good old boy club . No management training what so ever . It was a whore club . Not something i wanted or agreed with . Plus i just couldn’t live with all the lies and mistreatment of fellow human beings . The only regret is management retirement is better than ours and they never had to use their sick leave . Which counts toward their retirement .
Um, JT, mind explaining how you got the 15k buyout with only eight years service ?
GTY, your story is similar to mine. I worked 17 years in the private sector as a mid-level manager. Took a mass buyout from them and decided a part time job at the post office would be good & it was for a few years. I worked for a PM who wanted me to advance and due to this, I spent nearly 5 years total of my 8 postal years as an OIC. When my home office, where I’d been OIC (& was ranked 3rd in the state amongst small offices in sales while I was OIC) came open, I thought I had a decent chance. The POOM knew me & my work as I was his “go to” when he needed an OIC. I was well qualified, had more management experience than the POOM did (just not “postal” management), and had a BS with 1 yr toward an MBA & I’d OIC’d in numerous offices. Plus, I had a great interview—one of those times in your life where you wouldn’t go back and change anything. Then the POOM told me as I was leaving that he expected me to apply for “the next office that came available” as he was hiring the previous candidate (whom he interviewed for less than 10 minutes) While my interview went 45 minutes–all I can assume was that he was attempting to trip me up in the interview and blame that on my denial of the job. When that did not happen, he just flat out told me that though I had plenty of experience, it was not all “Postal” experience & he could not hire me for the job when he had someone with more years in.
To be honest, the person he hired has done a decent job but had a big learning curve. The office is no longer ranked in sales though—guess that did not matter….
I saw the writing on the wall, so when they offered the $15K last year I took it and got the hell out of the place. No regrets. My concern is for a few of my friends, decent people who may bear the brunt of this latest shake down. At least, I am no longer hearing, “How could you leave with just 15K?” They are now saying they wished they’d left when the money was there.
As far as an incentive offering again, EAS will most probably receive one before any craft. Clerk craft had their chance, so they will throw the money at EAS. I doubt most will take it because they are used to the big salaries & perks. I do think they would lower numbers significantly with a service-wide incentive though.
Long story shorter,
As I was reading the angry rant from Avenger I realized that he/she is the perfect example for the psychological tests for becoming a supervisor. Avenger seems very hostile and incompetent and will probably bully and threaten his way through his shift to get people to listen. Respect is something a good manager has to earn. Without it Avengers ways are the only way to motivate people to work harder. I have noticed in my career that it’s the managers who ‘steal’ time from the USPS and not the employees. When they screw up they get promoted to move them to another office. They should be fired or demoted. We need to weed out the misfits and incompetants in management to make room for those who could and would make a good leader. Sorry Avenger , but you are obviously one of those misfits. And you probably don’t even have a high school diploma that you were complaining about with the clerks. GET A LIFE!!!!!!!!!!
Tests of any kind would do no good; USPS mgmt. would fix, lie about, etc., those to whatever they wanted, just as they do with numbers today in various forms (financial, workload, etc.).
Roses are Red:
Violets…they’d be your blues
To become a “Postal Manager’
Not only do you need to be a psychotic kiss *ss:
But you need to know 1+1 does not equal two’s !!!
Yo, Avenger, before I even got to the part in your rant that said you are a mgr, I knew your sorry ass was a dirtbag mgr. Bitch!